Installing Canned Lighting Cans In Ceiling With Cramped Space

Discussion in 'Electrical And Lighting' started by Nifty, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Sep 11, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    Ok, as I posted in another thread, I have a cramped attic space and need to install some canned lights:

    upload_2013-9-11_11-23-18.jpeg

    I need to access the area that is past the end of that yellow tape measurer and I'm not sure what to do.
     
  2. Sep 12, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm wondering if I can wire things up down below and then fish up the wiring, etc. into the ceiling? That would allow me to do most of it from below vs. from up above.
     
  3. Sep 12, 2013
    Sumi

    Sumi Member Staff Member

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    That's a tricky one, getting the wires to go where they should through that mess...
     
  4. Sep 12, 2013
    HayZee518

    HayZee518 Member

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    For your installation if access space is limited, buy replacement cans instead of "first" installation cans.
    The difference between the two is - the replacement types have ears that hold the fixture to the sheetrock when you cut out the circle. New installation cans have two brackets that screw into the sides of two joists. the replacements have a floating junction box, so all the wiring can be done below the installation. then just shoved up into the hole. to minimize tripping of the light's thermal overload, insulation should be removed around the fixture so heat can escape. The bezel plate snaps onto the fixture when you are finished.
     
  5. Sep 12, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    Fantastic ideas, thanks!

    You mentioned "all the wiring can be done below"... but I'm wondering how that's possible with a bunch of cans all being inserted in different spots? I'm assuming I'll need to go up-top and do some kind of connecting to some extent, no?
     
  6. Sep 12, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    AH HA! For some reason I assumed the wires had to be installed to the cans first and THEN fed up into the ceiling. Well, there's no reason why the wiring can't all be fished and fed first and THEN all the connections at the lights be done underneath. Basically similar to this:

    (watch at the 8:50 mark)

     
  7. Sep 12, 2013
    HayZee518

    HayZee518 Member

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    Since the only reason you have to go up into the crawl space will be to fish wires, the splices can be accomplished before the lights themselves are shoved into the holes. see fixture picture 5.jpg
     
  8. Sep 12, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    Ok, I'm off to Home Depot to pick up some cans / recessed lights! I'm a big fan of LED's so I think I'll splurge for those.

    The office is about 8' x 14' and I'm thinking I'll be fine with three lights down the center of the room spaced about 3" apart. What do you think?
     
  9. Sep 12, 2013
    HayZee518

    HayZee518 Member

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    check out the lumen output of those fixtures before you buy! code requirements is 3 watts per square foot.
     
  10. Sep 12, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    Wait, there's a code that tells me how much light I have to put in a room?

    My room is 8 x 14 = 112. x 3 = 336 sq. ft.

    The LED cans I just purchased are "600 lumens / 65 flood watts" each for a total of 195. So, code is saying I need about twice as many lights in this little tiny space?!?
     
  11. Sep 12, 2013
    Montyj

    Montyj New Member

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    Do you have an electrical inspector where you live? The lumens code isn't cast in stone for residential, more of a guideline for safe movement. With an 8 x 14 office, I hope you plan to use a floor lamp or additional support lighting if you only use three cans at 65w. You will not be happy with the end result if you don't.
     
  12. Sep 12, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    Hmm... a few thoughts:
    1. I'm not at all worried about an inspector coming by.
    2. I really like bright lighting, so I may want to cover my bases and add more lights.
    3. For the past 7 years my desk has only been lit by a single 100 watt (comparable) CFL.
    I guess I figured if one CFL kept me lit enough, that three 65 LED's would be sufficient, but I might be totally wrong, especially since these will be recessed lights vs. a CFL bulb out in the "open".

    I guess I could go buy 3 more of these lights... it just seems like a LOT of light for such a small space.
     
  13. Sep 14, 2013
    Montyj

    Montyj New Member

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    If a bright office is what your looking for, you may consider that most offices have about 40+ FC of light. A Foot Candle is one lumen of light density per square foot. Which means the average office has about 40 lumens per square foot. You would need about 4500 lumens to reach that goal. Can lights aren't designed for what you are trying to use them for. If you went with 6 of the lights you described, that would get you 3600 lumens, which may be suitable. If I were you, I would visit a lighting showroom and talk to some experts. Advice is free, and you may come away with a better plan.

    You could also use three can lights for general ambient lighting, and install track lighting over the desk area for more direct work lighting. A dimmer on the track lights could also ease the eyes if a lot of computer work is being done. I think that's the route I would take.
     
  14. Sep 14, 2013
    HayZee518

    HayZee518 Member

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    I wonder if "pulling a permit" is necessary in his neck of the woods?
     
  15. Sep 16, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    I keep going back and forth. 3 cans, 4 cans, 6 cans?

    My current idea is to try 3 down the middle. If it's too dim, I can pull out the middle one and put in a light/fan combo, which is what we have in almost every other room in the house.
     
  16. Sep 16, 2013
    HayZee518

    HayZee518 Member

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    If you put in a fan/light combo - get one with a wireless remote. I can tell you how to fish a wire to a wall switch. but I don't know if you'd appreciate the mess.
     
  17. Sep 16, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    We actually pre-wired 2 sets of romax when we were putting the room together (splitting it), so if I ever wanted to control a fan separate I could. :)
     
  18. Sep 25, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    Today was a busy day! I decided to go with 3 recessed LED cans right down the middle of the room. I figure if I need more light I can put the fan/light combo in the middle of the room... but I don't think I'll need that much light.

    My wife's dad and I wired the switch and I cut the holes for the cans, & wired them up to each other. Tomorrow I will make the connection from the lights to the switch and then I'll finally be past the big hump that's been keeping me from moving into my new office! (the next hurdle will be choosing / installing the flooring).

    upload_2013-9-25_0-52-47.jpeg
     
  19. Sep 25, 2013
    Sumi

    Sumi Member Staff Member

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    :thumbsup

    How's the rest of the renovations going? Are you guys winning?
     
  20. Sep 25, 2013
    HayZee518

    HayZee518 Member

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    If you decide to put in a fan-light combo, how are you gonna hold it in the ceiling? You must have a junction box for the wires. Do you know there is special fan hanger box?
     
  21. Sep 25, 2013
    Nifty

    Nifty Administrator Staff Member

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    @HayZee518 : I'll install a junction / fan hanger box if I go that route. It will be relatively easy to do.

    @Sumi : Unfortunately things are going slowly. :(

    BAD NEWS:

    I'm so upset! I turned on the LED cans today and they have a slight buzz coming from all of them. I called the company and they said, "they shouldn't buzz more than florescent lights." Um... I don't want ANY buzz at all!

    So, now that I spent half a day wiring and installing these dumb things I need to decide if I either remove them all and return them for something else, or if I just live with the slight buzz.


    GRRR!!!

    :mad:
     

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